I just reviewed the Odyssey in 2003, yet felt I had to take the unchanged 2004 for a test drive. I liked the 2003, but for 2004 Toyota, Nissan, and Ford introduced redesigned minivans. I have driven and reviewed all but the Ford, which I hope to review soon. I needed to drive the Odyssey again to evaluate how it compares to the newer competition, even though it will itself be redesigned for 2005.

Update: I have now driven and reviewed the 2005 van. That review can be found here.

Honda Odyssey Reliability

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Styling

The Odyssey, though well-proportioned, is not the prettiest van going. No nifty “hidden” door tracks here. Just clean, boxy, angular styling. About as stylish as the current Civic. Which is to say, not much style at all. This isn't a minivan that will appeal aesthetically to people who need a minivan but really, really don't want one. Don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not saying the Odyssey is ugly. It isn’t. It’s just in that vast middle ground between ugly and beautiful occupied by good appliances everywhere. For pretty, get a Chrysler. For striking, get a Nissan. For handsome, get a Ford. (The Freestar’s styling is similar to the Windstar’s, yet many detail changes have been made to eliminate the latter’s quirky aspects.) For odd (maybe some people prefer their styling simply odd), get a Toyota. But if what you really want is an appliance, then the Honda’s aesthetics will suit you well.

The look of the instrument panel is also all about utility. All the controls are very well located and easy to use, but there’s very little style here. As with the exterior, think Civic, just larger. Much larger. The interior is nicer and considerably sportier in the Odyssey-based Pilot SUV. Last year I suggested that the Odyssey needs an interior more like the Pilot’s. This need has become only more urgent. Compared to the new extrants, and the Chrysler for that matter, the Odyssey borders on drab inside. Even the optional leather cannot counteract the effect of so much matte black trim and a general absence of interesting detail. This lack of interior style is my major complaint about the van. The instrument and door panels need a substantial style infusion. I’m not asking for something wacky like the Quest interior. Something along the lines of the Accord and Pilot would work.

As in other Hondas, the quality of the interior materials is quite good. For example, the lids for the third row storage compartments are a separate pieces of plastic with smooth latches and conventional metal hinges. What’s so special about this? Well, in the Chryslers, even though some sell for well over $30,000, this lid is the same piece of plastic as the interior body panel, with the hinge just a thin part of this piece of plastic. Like the hinges found in some cheap children’s toys.

Accommodations

Much has been made of the versatility of the Odyssey’s interior, and rightly so. As in the Honda CR-V, you can create a walk through to the second row by folding down a retractable tray table. No need to decide whether you want a tray or a walk through between the front seats—you can have one or the other at will. The Chrysler offers a removable center console. While this provides useful storage, it’s not as easy to manage.

The second-generation van retains the disappearing third-row seat of the original. For its first few years this set the Odyssey apart from other large minivans, and was a primary reason for its success. But soon every minivan will have this feature. GM has been offering something similar since 2002, though most of its vans continue to lack this option. The new Nissan and Ford have similar seats. With the Ford’s you can even flip the third row 90 degrees for tailgating. (I think the Mazda also offers this feature.) In my test drive of the Nissan I found its third row seat very heavy, requiring a strong tug to rotated it into the well. The tether was a half-foot too short, yanking my fingers into the well with the seat—the first time I’ve ever gotten injured on a test drive. I rechecked the Honda this time. Sure enough, its tether is long enough to avoid a similar injury. Nissan has been rushing a lot of product to the market the past few years, and I fear they have overlooked many details in the process. In the Nissan’s favor, its second row is the only one in a minivan that also folds flat. The new Toyota Sienna has the best third row of all. Unlike the others it is split in two sections and merely slides back into the well rather than pivoting into it. This makes it more versatile and easier to stow.

The second major innovation, a second row seat that slides sideways to form either a bench or two captains chairs, is a bit less useful, but innovative nonetheless. (The Mazda has this feature as well.) I suppose this might be useful since passengers prefer separate seats, while a bench makes getting to the third row easier. Finally, the EX comes standard with the dual power sliding doors available on just about every minivan these days.

The Odyssey’s size translates into a very roomy interior. Cargo room is a bit less than in the Chryslers, 146 to 167 cubic feet, probably because the disappearing seat has been retained. The Toyota and Nissan offer only a couple more cubic feet. All other minivans, including the new Ford, offer less. If you need much more room than the Odyssey provides, you’d better be ready to live with the compromises inherent in a full-size van. To get this much cargo room in an SUV you’ll have to go with the huge Ford Excursion. SUVs’ higher load floors generally result in a vertically shorter cargo area. This was evident in the Honda showroom, where the Odyssey and Pilot were parked side by side with their tailgates open (after I opened them, at least).


The front seats are overly flat and a bit too firm for a minivan, but reasonably comfortable. The driving position, as in other minivans, is high, and visibility is excellent all around. The Chrysler provides an even more open view forward, but this will mostly be of value to those who want as open a view as possible.

The second and third rows are more comfortable than those in most competitors. Unlike in some other minivans, even the third row is high enough off the floor to provide good thigh support. Unlike in the Toyota and Chrysler, legroom is simultaneously adequate for adults in both rows. Shoulder room is adequate for three adults in the third row. My main quibble with the Odyssey’s rear seats remains their overly flat shape. A little bucketing, as in the Chrysler vans, would be nice.

A DVD-based entertainment system with a screen that drops down from the ceiling is available only with the EX-leather model. A very good feature to have on trips with children. Other vans offer similar systems without forcing you to get a loaded minivan with leather.

On the road

For 2002, the 3.5-liter V6 gained 30 horsepower and the transmission gained a fifth gear. Though the Odyssey was far from sluggish before, it’s fairly quick now. Since the Odyssey weighs 4,400 pounds, even 240 horsepower isn’t going to make a rocket out of it, but it’s all 99 percent of minivan buyers could want. Even with the new entrants this remains my favorite minivan powertrain. The Nissan’s sounds and feels much less refined, while the Toyota’s doesn’t feel energetic unless you dip deeply into the firmly sprung accelerator. Even with the power increase the Honda engine runs on regular gas. The EPA ratings of 18/25 are quite reasonable considering the vehicle’s weight and the engine’s power. A few minivans do better, but not by much. Most do worse.

When I first drove an Odyssey a couple of years ago, I was quite surprised by what it was like to drive. The “Civic, just larger” theme continued on the road. That same day I’d driven a Ford Windstar and a used, late '90s Plymouth Voyager, and the Odyssey felt nothing like those vans. To begin with, from the driver’s seat the Odyssey felt much smaller than it is. For such a large vehicle, it handled very nimbly. Not like a sports car, but almost like, well, a Honda sedan. The engine also helped. It sounded much more similar to other Honda engines than to the lower, throatier sixes in the domestic competition. Words, at least my words, can’t quite capture the sensation. Let’s just say that my immediate impression was that Honda did everything possible to make the Odyssey sound and feel much more like a Civic than any other minivan.

The flipside of these sensations was that they lent the Odyssey the feel of a utilitarian vehicle rather than of a near-luxury vehicle. Isn’t utility what minivans are about anyway? Maybe so, but many minivan buyers also desire the fluid moves, silent ride, and overall feeling of substance found in near-luxury sedans. In my review of that minivan I noted that these buyers would be much happier in a Chrysler Town & Country than in an Odyssey. The Odyssey rode well, but in the tightly controlled, uncushioned manner of other Hondas. In addition, road noise was considerably higher than in the new Chryslers.

Well, all that was then. The revised Odyssey rides and handles much more like a Chrysler than like a 1999-2001 Odyssey. The new van is much smoother and quieter. This makes it feel more luxurious. This comes at a cost. The handling is not as sharp as I recall, and the vehicle now feels about as large as it is. As I noted last year, I suspect this makes it a better van for the great majority of people, but something special has been lost. The revised Odyssey isn’t as fun to drive as the 1999-2001. Its handling is thoroughly stable, predictable, and fluid--with no untoward body motions over rough pavement or in hard turns--but the previously sharp responses have been dulled somewhat. On a positive note, the tires are much better than the squeal-prone rubber fitted to the Toyota.

The Nissan probably holds the fun-to-drive title now among the long minivans. The Chrysler products might also have a small edge over the Honda is this area, at least in fairly casual driving where the weighting and feel of their steering is very good. (I have only driven a short wheelbase GM van recently, and it handled well, but I recall being unimpressed by the handling of a Chevrolet Venture I rented a few years ago.)

On the other hand, the Odyssey feels considerably more nimble and fun to drive than the relatively ponderous Pilot SUV. I find this interesting, as SUVs have an image of being more fun to drive than minivans.

None of the big fans drives remotely like a sports sedan. Those whose top priority is handling will be happier in the shorter minivans offered by Mazda, GM, and Chrysler. I’ve driven the first two, and their shorter wheelbases help them feel much more agile. I should note that I found the Mazda's steering overly lighter in effort and lower in feedback than I expected given that brand's reputation.

After driving the other vans again, the Odyssey even with the 2002 revisions ranks mid-pack in luxury feel. The Toyota and Chrysler feel smoother, quieter, and more luxurious. The Chrysler likely remains the most luxurious of the bunch (though perhaps the new Mercury will unseat it). The Nissan feels considerably cruder and noisier.

Notably, Honda still does not offer a sunroof in the Odyssey. The Nissan, in contrast, is available with as many as five pieces of glass in the roof. Honda also does not offer many other features available in competing vans, such as a CD changer, stability control, curtain airbags, or obstacle detection. I suspect this will change with the 2005 redesign. For 2004, Nissan and especially Toyota offer far more features.

Price

Update March 2004: For an updated price analysis see my review of the 2005 Chrysler Town & Country here. The 2005 Chrysler has a new, highly innovative seating system. Both rows fold beneath the floor, and when the seats are up underfloor storage is very generous. Either it or the Honda is the best minivan value right now. I'd look at both.

The Odyssey EX-L I drove listed for $28,980. Likely because of the increased competition, Honda increased prices only $90 from 2003. An EX with cloth would have cost $1,500 less. The only available features this van lacked were a $1,500 DVD-based entertainment system and a $2,000 navigation system, which cannot be ordered together. Unlike last year dealers are discounting these vans, but still not by much. Edmunds suggests that the typical discount reduces the price to about $28,200

The hot van is now the Toyota Sienna. The Sienna’s options are bundled such that to get as much stuff as the Odyssey EX-L comes with you must get even more stuff. For example, to get traction control and/or ABS on the XLE you must get the stability control (the three features come in a package), and to get side airbags you must also get side curtain airbags. To get as close to the Honda as possible I’ve opted for an XLE with all of the above. Toyota’s new system which puts everything into a huge number of packages is very confusing, but I waded through the descriptions to find the best one: #12 of 21 XLE packages. The list price of a Sienna XLE with Package 12 and floormats is $32,871, and Edmunds suggests no discounting. The Toyota is capable of being optioned much higher, but even at this price it is about $4,700 more than the Honda. Adjusting for equipment differences (sunshades, power passenger seat, stability control, curtain airbags, 17-inch wheels, power liftgate, JBL sound system, center console) would narrow this gap by about $2,350. With an approximately $2,350 price advantage, the Honda seems the better buy to me.

The most comparable Nissan Quest SL is equipped between the Toyota and the Honda. It has curtain airbags, fold-flat second-row captain’s chairs, rear obstacle detection, adjustable pedals, power passenger’s seat, power liftgate, and fixed skylights in back rows; but it has no driver’s side power slider, no automatic climate control (standard on the SE), and its automatic has only four speeds (a five-speed is standard on the SE). It lists for $30,030. Dealer discounts reduce this to around $29,400. Adjusted for content the Nissan is about $100 less than the Honda. It is a much less refined vehicle, so I only recommend it for those who place a high priority on styling (and like how the Quest looks).

In reaction to the Odyssey’s relatively low prices, Chrysler introduced value models of its minivans three years ago. A Town & Country eX with leather and side airbags lists for $30,500. The typical discount and a $1,000 rebate reduce this to about $28,000. The Chrysler has a power passenger seat and power liftgate, and its third row does not fold flat, but is otherwise equipped like the Honda. Adjusted for equipment it is about $550 less expensive. The Chrysler is more luxurious and feels a bit more agile; the Honda is quicker, has the trick third row, and will hold its value better. The Honda narrowly wins this comparison in my mind, but I can see why many people continue to buy the Chrysler.

On the new Ford Freestar, heated seats and automatic temperature control are only available on the top-of-the-line Limited. With options to match the Honda’s features, the Freestar lists for $34,875. The typical dealer discount and a $2,000 rebate reduce this to about $30,400, still expensive in this group. Because of how its options are bundled, however, the Freestar thus equipped includes quite a few features not available on the Honda: stability control, curtain airbags, rear obstacle detection, and a power passenger seat. After adjusting for these features, the Ford is about $750 more than the Honda. Giving up on the heated seats and opting for the more competitively priced SEL cuts the list to $33,230 and the price after discount and rebate to about $28,900. After adjusting for content, the Freestar SEL has a $200 price advantage over the Honda. (There are many minor standard features on the Limited, such as two-tone paint and turn signal indicators in the mirrors, that I am not pricing for.) The Honda is worth the extra money because of its superior powertrain, roomier interior, more comfortable rear seats, and less rapid depreciation.

Note: Currently in many regions the $975 package that includes stability control, traction control, and rear obstacle detection is free on Limiteds and $750 on SELs. I have included these discounts in my comparisons.

GM offers the least expensive extended minivans once discounts and rebates are taken into account. (The Kia Sedona is cheaper still but is considerably smaller than the others, and at any rate only marginally competitive.) The GM vans are less roomy and powerful than the others, but despite the oldest chassis here they handle fairly well, especially in their short wheelbase variants. Their weakest area may be cheap-looking interiors. The seats’ appearance is especially disappointing, but leather helps a great deal. A fold-flat third row is available, but only with cloth. A Pontiac Montana equipped very much like the Honda except for no fold-flat third row seat, no automatic climate control, power passenger seat, rear obstacle detection, and 15-inch wheels lists for $31,250, but the typical discount and a $2,500 rebate reduces this to about $26,200. Adjusted for content the GM van is $1,900 less. For another $230 you can get a sport suspension complete with automatic leveling, a rarity in this class. I have not tested a GM van so equipped, so I cannot evaluate this option. An old design but still worthy of consideration by those seeking the lowest price and good handling in an extended length van.

The Mazda MPV offers many of the Odyssey’s innovative features in a more nimble, more compact package. The Mazda’s and Honda’s sticker prices aren’t far apart, but Mazda discounts its van pretty heavily such that the actual price difference is at least a couple thousand dollars.

Last words

The Odyssey remains an excellent vehicle at a reasonable price, even at sticker. However, the Chrysler is more stylish, more luxurious, and offers more features, the Toyota offers far more features and is a bit smoother, the Nissan is much more interesting to look at, and the GM minivans are a couple grand less (but depreciate more). I can see an argument for any of them, but unless the Ford blows me away none seems perfect. The Odyssey remains the best buy, but I would like to see a nicer interior and more safety features. I suspect this is what the 2005 redesign will bring. The Chrysler vans also receive a freshening for 2005, complete with a fold-flat seat, and new quasi-minivans are due from GM. A year ago I thought that 2004 would be the definitive year in this segment. Now it appears that 2005 will be. If you can wait a year, it might not be a bad idea.

To learn more about my reliability research and sign up to participate in it, visit www.truedelta.com.

My reviews of related vehicles:
Honda Odyssey [2005]
Honda Odyssey [2000]
Chrysler Town and Country (2005)
Ford Freestar
Kia Sedona
Mazda MPV
Nissan Quest
Toyota Sienna

Amount Paid (US$): 28,980